I know. Wouldn’t it be nice if we could all just keep our nationality and not be punished for it?

Thank you for you quick reply. Very kind of you. Looks like I need to give my kids an extra 2000+ dollars on their 18th birthdays. So sad.

I’ll start with the usual disclaimer: I’m no expert and not a lawyer! No, she can’t renounce for free. I just recently contacted our consulate about that for my son who’s turning 18 soon and got this response:

“Before 9 November 2015 there was no fee involved in relinquishing ones U.S. citizenship, presently the fee is the same as for renouncing, which as you are aware is $2350. The fee applies to anyone wishing to relinquish/renounce their citizenship regardless of age.

If your son is determined to renounce his citizenship we suggest that he waits until after his 18th birthday. The State Department is hesitant about approving renunciation requests for minors. He will also have to initiate the process himself, parents or guardians may not request the loss of nationality for their children.”

I have no idea about your Swedish account. The treaty with each country is different.

I have a US IRA and my accountant says there’s no problem with leaving it there even though I’ve renounced. It doesn’t get taxed till I start withdrawing from it. However, they’ll take 30% off each payment once I retire and start collecting from it. If I want to reduce the percentage I get taxed, I’ll have to start filing the forms again. At least that’s what my accountant said, but there’s a lot of confusion about it…

I feel exactly the same about my son: regretful that I ever registered him with the US consulate. As far as I know, the US isn’t drafting kids at the moment, but my son is going to renounce anyway since he can’t see any reason to keep the US citizenship if it’s going to mean he has to fill in tax forms for life, and get no benefits from it.

I have a couple of questions for you that I cannot find answers to on the web. 1. Do you know if she can renounce for free between the ages of 18 and 18 1/2? I’m hoping you have investigated for you own kids. 2. If I finally decided to renounce do you know how my Swedish retirement account from my Swedish employer would be taxed? I can’t even touch it yet but I wonder if the US would tax it. 3. Did you have a US based IRA when you renounced? I have one from when I worked in the US 30 years ago. Would that get taxed immediately or first when I start taking out money from the IRA? Realize you are not an accountant but maybe you have some general ideas.

Right now I am feeling bad I applied for my daughters US passport so many years ago. I have have a son who is only 14 but I now realize the US may go after him for armed forces service even though he is a Swedish citizen first. This is scary stuff

Yes, I’m afraid it is. And that’s not just bad for us. It’s bad for America to have millions of disenchanted Americans ‘representing’ the US around the world.

The freedom list. How ironic is that! I appreciate you recommending my blog to people! I hope some of them stay around for the travel-related posts as well!

BTW, I prefer to think of the quarterly list as the “Freedom List”.

Thanks for your willingness to continue exploring this important topic.

Two “styles of relinquishments”

1. Either renounce or give notice of a prior relinquishing act at a U.S. consulate

Assuming the CLN is issued then one ceases to be a U.S. citizen under the Internal Revenue Code from the date of notice to the consulate. See S. 877A(g)(4) of the Internal Revenue Code. Therefore, I suspect that many people are renouncing and NOT notifying the IRS (Form 8854, etc.)

2. The “DIY” (Do it yourself relinquishment) – just walking away.

I suspect there are tens of thousands of people doing just that. They don’t have the financial resources to do anything else. Also it really is a lot easier. They may or may not have problems down the road.

Either way the numbers are very understated.

The problem (as you point out) is that one cannot be a “U.S. tax compliant” person and survive outside the United States. There are simply too many life restrictions associated with it.

Then there is the question of where to get competent advice, if you want it. Very difficult to find and very expensive if you can find it.

Whether you are U.S. tax compliant or NOT U.S. tax compliant you will have to endure the disabilities of a U.S. birthplace.

The era of the U.S. expat is clearly over.

Yes, I know. In my case it was a choice, partly based on all that money I was shelling out for the accountant, and partly based on my indignation at the invasion of privacy inherent in the FBAR. And also our lack of representation in the face of unfair legislation. So far I haven’t had any banking troubles, but then I haven’t tried to open an account or get a mortgage recently. And I teach American Studies, so being American is actually an advantage. As a teacher, I have no power over any business accounts.

Thanks, Ruth. I have no idea how much help they could be because I could never afford to hire one!