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	Comments on: Citizenship Matters	</title>
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	<link>https://rachelsruminations.com/citizenship/</link>
	<description>Taking the road less traveled</description>
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		<title>
		By: Rachel Heller		</title>
		<link>https://rachelsruminations.com/citizenship/#comment-8423</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rachel Heller]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Feb 2016 15:50:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://rachelsruminations.com/?p=6203#comment-8423</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://rachelsruminations.com/citizenship/#comment-8421&quot;&gt;Anita @ No Particular Place To Go&lt;/a&gt;.

You can say that again!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://rachelsruminations.com/citizenship/#comment-8421">Anita @ No Particular Place To Go</a>.</p>
<p>You can say that again!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Anita @ No Particular Place To Go		</title>
		<link>https://rachelsruminations.com/citizenship/#comment-8421</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anita @ No Particular Place To Go]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Feb 2016 13:53:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://rachelsruminations.com/?p=6203#comment-8421</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[This is hopelessly confusing, especially to those who would naturally consider themselves to be law abiding US citizens residing outside of the country.  There are lots of acronyms that are used like FATCA and FBAR but I&#039;ll throw in one more to express my reaction, FUBAR! Anita]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is hopelessly confusing, especially to those who would naturally consider themselves to be law abiding US citizens residing outside of the country.  There are lots of acronyms that are used like FATCA and FBAR but I&#8217;ll throw in one more to express my reaction, FUBAR! Anita</p>
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		<title>
		By: Rachel Heller		</title>
		<link>https://rachelsruminations.com/citizenship/#comment-8377</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rachel Heller]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Jan 2016 23:01:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://rachelsruminations.com/?p=6203#comment-8377</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://rachelsruminations.com/citizenship/#comment-8366&quot;&gt;John Richardson&lt;/a&gt;.

Thank you for clarifying this, John. Now I understand your use of the term &#039;caste.&#039;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://rachelsruminations.com/citizenship/#comment-8366">John Richardson</a>.</p>
<p>Thank you for clarifying this, John. Now I understand your use of the term &#8216;caste.&#8217;</p>
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		<title>
		By: David Lohrmann		</title>
		<link>https://rachelsruminations.com/citizenship/#comment-8373</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Lohrmann]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Jan 2016 20:20:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://rachelsruminations.com/?p=6203#comment-8373</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://rachelsruminations.com/citizenship/#comment-8362&quot;&gt;Rachel Heller&lt;/a&gt;.

Excellent idea. Many readers are probably totally unaware of this category.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://rachelsruminations.com/citizenship/#comment-8362">Rachel Heller</a>.</p>
<p>Excellent idea. Many readers are probably totally unaware of this category.</p>
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		<title>
		By: John Richardson		</title>
		<link>https://rachelsruminations.com/citizenship/#comment-8367</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Richardson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Jan 2016 14:56:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://rachelsruminations.com/?p=6203#comment-8367</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://rachelsruminations.com/citizenship/#comment-8362&quot;&gt;Rachel Heller&lt;/a&gt;.

I encourage this. You might emphasize the distinction between citizens for nationality purposes and citizens for tax purposes. One can cease to be a citizen for nationality purposes (renounce U.S. citizenship) and continue to be a &quot;citizen&quot; for tax purposes. See IRC S. 7701(a)(5) and follow the trail.

The same principle applies to Green Card holders. See S. 7701(b)(6) of the IRC which makes it clear that one continues to be a U.S. taxpayer even when a Green Card Holder no longer lives in the United States. This provision has existed since 1984. In other words, to get rid of the Green Card for tax purposes some very specific steps must be taken.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://rachelsruminations.com/citizenship/#comment-8362">Rachel Heller</a>.</p>
<p>I encourage this. You might emphasize the distinction between citizens for nationality purposes and citizens for tax purposes. One can cease to be a citizen for nationality purposes (renounce U.S. citizenship) and continue to be a &#8220;citizen&#8221; for tax purposes. See IRC S. 7701(a)(5) and follow the trail.</p>
<p>The same principle applies to Green Card holders. See S. 7701(b)(6) of the IRC which makes it clear that one continues to be a U.S. taxpayer even when a Green Card Holder no longer lives in the United States. This provision has existed since 1984. In other words, to get rid of the Green Card for tax purposes some very specific steps must be taken.</p>
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		<title>
		By: John Richardson		</title>
		<link>https://rachelsruminations.com/citizenship/#comment-8366</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Richardson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Jan 2016 14:51:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://rachelsruminations.com/?p=6203#comment-8366</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Hello Rachel:

Thanks for your series of posts of posts on renouncing U.S. citizenship. To carry on our Twitter discussion:

I believe that what you describe as a &quot;class system&quot; is better described as a &quot;caste system&quot;. It&#039;s very clear that the purpose of what you describe as the &quot;third class&quot; and &quot;fourth class&quot; citizens, is to assist in paying the expenses of the &quot;first class&quot; and &quot;second class&quot; citizens.

This reality is expressed in the form of #PFIC taxation, Obamacare surtax (3.8%), and other taxes, fines and penalties imposed on those living abroad. The purpose of the reporting requirements (FBAR, Form 8938, From 3520, etc.) is to identify the assets that are subject to this punitive taxation. &quot;So, renounce&quot;, say the Homelanders.

As you know a &quot;third or fourth class citizen&quot; must pay the Homeland to renounce and to be relieved of the responsibility of paying for the &quot;first class&quot; and &quot;second class&quot; citizens. This payment is in the &quot;form&quot; (no pun intended) of administrative fees ($2350), five years of taxes and for a very large number of people (think &quot;covered expatriate&quot;) the S. 877A Exit Tax. The S. 877A Exit Tax is neither understood nor properly described by most tax and legal professionals. It is far more pervasive (and pernicious) than most realize. In addition, once one is identified as a &quot;covered expatriate&quot;, that status will follow you for life and will make it impossible to make gifts or bequests to U.S. persons (leading to family renunciations).

How is this different from a &quot;caste system&quot; where the lower castes are required to pay for the higher level castes. It shocks the conscience to realize what America has become.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello Rachel:</p>
<p>Thanks for your series of posts of posts on renouncing U.S. citizenship. To carry on our Twitter discussion:</p>
<p>I believe that what you describe as a &#8220;class system&#8221; is better described as a &#8220;caste system&#8221;. It&#8217;s very clear that the purpose of what you describe as the &#8220;third class&#8221; and &#8220;fourth class&#8221; citizens, is to assist in paying the expenses of the &#8220;first class&#8221; and &#8220;second class&#8221; citizens.</p>
<p>This reality is expressed in the form of #PFIC taxation, Obamacare surtax (3.8%), and other taxes, fines and penalties imposed on those living abroad. The purpose of the reporting requirements (FBAR, Form 8938, From 3520, etc.) is to identify the assets that are subject to this punitive taxation. &#8220;So, renounce&#8221;, say the Homelanders.</p>
<p>As you know a &#8220;third or fourth class citizen&#8221; must pay the Homeland to renounce and to be relieved of the responsibility of paying for the &#8220;first class&#8221; and &#8220;second class&#8221; citizens. This payment is in the &#8220;form&#8221; (no pun intended) of administrative fees ($2350), five years of taxes and for a very large number of people (think &#8220;covered expatriate&#8221;) the S. 877A Exit Tax. The S. 877A Exit Tax is neither understood nor properly described by most tax and legal professionals. It is far more pervasive (and pernicious) than most realize. In addition, once one is identified as a &#8220;covered expatriate&#8221;, that status will follow you for life and will make it impossible to make gifts or bequests to U.S. persons (leading to family renunciations).</p>
<p>How is this different from a &#8220;caste system&#8221; where the lower castes are required to pay for the higher level castes. It shocks the conscience to realize what America has become.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Rachel Heller		</title>
		<link>https://rachelsruminations.com/citizenship/#comment-8362</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rachel Heller]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Jan 2016 08:33:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://rachelsruminations.com/?p=6203#comment-8362</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://rachelsruminations.com/citizenship/#comment-8361&quot;&gt;David Lohrmann&lt;/a&gt;.

True. Maybe I should a follow-up post on classes of non-citizens or &quot;US persons&quot;...]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://rachelsruminations.com/citizenship/#comment-8361">David Lohrmann</a>.</p>
<p>True. Maybe I should a follow-up post on classes of non-citizens or &#8220;US persons&#8221;&#8230;</p>
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		<title>
		By: David Lohrmann		</title>
		<link>https://rachelsruminations.com/citizenship/#comment-8361</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Lohrmann]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Jan 2016 07:24:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://rachelsruminations.com/?p=6203#comment-8361</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[One could say that there is also a fifth class of US citizenship, i.e. that of a &quot;covered expatriate&quot;. Under US law, a covered expatriate is NOT a citizen for immigration purposes, but is a &quot;tax American&quot; or US citizen for tax purposes. He/she is not allowed to vote or even enter the US without a visa and is probably unlikely to obtain a visa. This status even extends to the affected person&#039;s property after death, i.e. impacts any possible American heirs to whom he might bequeath money, property or any other assets.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One could say that there is also a fifth class of US citizenship, i.e. that of a &#8220;covered expatriate&#8221;. Under US law, a covered expatriate is NOT a citizen for immigration purposes, but is a &#8220;tax American&#8221; or US citizen for tax purposes. He/she is not allowed to vote or even enter the US without a visa and is probably unlikely to obtain a visa. This status even extends to the affected person&#8217;s property after death, i.e. impacts any possible American heirs to whom he might bequeath money, property or any other assets.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Rachel Heller		</title>
		<link>https://rachelsruminations.com/citizenship/#comment-8348</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rachel Heller]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jan 2016 06:11:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://rachelsruminations.com/?p=6203#comment-8348</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://rachelsruminations.com/citizenship/#comment-8345&quot;&gt;JC&lt;/a&gt;.

You&#039;re absolutely right. Other countries acquiesced to the Inter Governmental Agreements far too easily, including the Netherlands. I don&#039;t really blame them, though. The US is the bully; the Netherlands is the weakling.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://rachelsruminations.com/citizenship/#comment-8345">JC</a>.</p>
<p>You&#8217;re absolutely right. Other countries acquiesced to the Inter Governmental Agreements far too easily, including the Netherlands. I don&#8217;t really blame them, though. The US is the bully; the Netherlands is the weakling.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Rachel Heller		</title>
		<link>https://rachelsruminations.com/citizenship/#comment-8347</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rachel Heller]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jan 2016 06:07:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://rachelsruminations.com/?p=6203#comment-8347</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://rachelsruminations.com/citizenship/#comment-8343&quot;&gt;Kristine&lt;/a&gt;.

I think the place to start would be the Isaac Brock Society website http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/. They gather all the information about this issue and suggestions for how to take action too.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://rachelsruminations.com/citizenship/#comment-8343">Kristine</a>.</p>
<p>I think the place to start would be the Isaac Brock Society website <a href="http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/" rel="nofollow ugc">http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/</a>. They gather all the information about this issue and suggestions for how to take action too.</p>
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